Obama-Care

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[[BDS] KERpLunk]

So I finally watched the movie SICKO the other day, despite my tentative feelings towards Michael Moore's myopic views. I try to stay somewhere in the middle, in fear of tipping off the edge. I must say though, it was an eye opening movie. I couldn't believe some of the American's heart-breaking stories as they fight in despair to get care for their ill family member, and are denied coverage over & over for misleading reasons...or just flat out lies!

It was actually a great time to watch this flick when considering the proposal on health care reform that Obama is pushing. One thing Michael Moore left out in his movie, was the way that public healthcare is funded. TAXES! I am NOT a big government person by any means, but there are two areas that I feel the government should care for it's people. HEALTHCARE & EDUCATION. After all, our Forefather's capitalist decisions got us where we are today. Many of which have created a bigger need for higher education and vaccinations. We die for our beliefs, fighting in our country's wars...this great nation should provide us the security of knowledge and good health. That is my belief.

But at what cost? Has anyone read a good article regarding the cost of Obama-Care? If so I would love to read it! What do you all think???

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

Obama's (now Congress' plan since they are shredding it) plan is a rip off without a public option, it's just more of the same but now with more money going to the insurance companies than ever.

Sure we'll pay for public healthcare with taxes just like we pay out the nose now to insurance companies and hospitals for the shite we have now. I'd rather have everyone covered than just some people who can afford it, or are lucky enough to have a job that offers a decent plan.

For the capitalists, if everyone had health care all the time, that would free us to choose jobs that wouldn't have normally had coverage or start a business, things that many people can't do now because they can't afford to lose their coverage or take risks with it.

I don't know what fantasy world the Congressmen that are against single-payer live in but people are already rationing their health care and the wait in a local emergency room here is at least 4 hours. Oh wait, I know what fantasy world they live in, it's one where all the members of Congress get free healthcare that is funded by taxes...

[[BDS] The Desert Rat]

Here is my view. I have been called a radical conservitive before, but I feel that if you don't have health insurance for you or your family, don't whine and complain over it. There is something you could do and also you would also be benefiting your country and getting a paycheck at the same time!  It is called the military.  Plain and simple, that is what this new healthcare plan should be.  If you need healthcare, and your current employer doesn't offer, quit that BS job, and take a nice car ride to your local recruiter, and enlist in the United States Military.

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

That's all well and good if you're young and healthy but won't help most people who are 35+. It's ironic that as a radical conservative you would advocate that people join into the largest government funded single-payer health care system in the US. Maybe instead we should just apply that system to everyone else in America.

[[BDS]-Ole Man Rivers]

All I know is I pay out the ass for our Health Ins and since our work has gone to shit many guys where I work are having to drop it because they can't afford it, I pay a little over 8000 a yr for this shit. And being I have a family it is a must to have coverage for my peoples.. I just hate it when I see some lazy fuck pushing a stroller with two in it and at least three behind. And they get more for nothing than what I get for what I pay for. BS  . We could always be like Canada and get health care you have to wait 6 mos to see a damn doctor or specialist.. I don't know guys I think we could be doing a lot better for us Americans than what they offer us.

[[BDS] Fog]

Here is my view. I have been called a radical conservitive before, but I feel that if you don't have health insurance for you or your family, don't whine and complain over it. There is something you could do and also you would also be benefiting your country and getting a paycheck at the same time!  It is called the military.  Plain and simple, that is what this new healthcare plan should be.  If you need healthcare, and your current employer doesn't offer, quit that BS job, and take a nice car ride to your local recruiter, and enlist in the United States Military.

That suggestion is neither radical nor conservative.  It is, however, a little sad.  The idea that somebody should feel compelled to put his life at real risk now in order to insure against a potential future risk to that same life blinks reality.

 

[[BDS] Fog]

So I finally watched the movie SICKO the other day, despite my tentative feelings towards Michael Moore's myopic views. I try to stay somewhere in the middle, in fear of tipping off the edge. I must say though, it was an eye opening movie. I couldn't believe some of the American's heart-breaking stories as they fight in despair to get care for their ill family member, and are denied coverage over & over for misleading reasons...or just flat out lies!

Check out this interview of the former head of PR for a major health insurer who was respnsible for their reaction to Sicko.  He has some interesting things to say. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

[Brock Samson]

Here is my view. I have been called a radical conservitive before, but I feel that if you don't have health insurance for you or your family, don't whine and complain over it. There is something you could do and also you would also be benefiting your country and getting a paycheck at the same time!  It is called the military.  Plain and simple, that is what this new healthcare plan should be.  If you need healthcare, and your current employer doesn't offer, quit that BS job, and take a nice car ride to your local recruiter, and enlist in the United States Military.

That suggestion is neither radical nor conservative.  It is, however, a little sad.  The idea that somebody should feel compelled to put his life at real risk now in order to insure against a potential future risk to that same life blinks reality.


 

rate 0 fog 1 

[[BDS] Oleander]

Obama's (now Congress' plan since they are shredding it) plan is a rip off without a public option, it's just more of the same but now with more money going to the insurance companies than ever.

Sure we'll pay for public healthcare with taxes just like we pay out the nose now to insurance companies and hospitals for the shite we have now. I'd rather have everyone covered than just some people who can afford it, or are lucky enough to have a job that offers a decent plan.

For the capitalists, if everyone had health care all the time, that would free us to choose jobs that wouldn't have normally had coverage or start a business, things that many people can't do now because they can't afford to lose their coverage or take risks with it.

I don't know what fantasy world the Congressmen that are against single-payer live in but people are already rationing their health care and the wait in a local emergency room here is at least 4 hours. Oh wait, I know what fantasy world they live in, it's one where all the members of Congress get free healthcare that is funded by taxes...

You made alot of points i hadn't considered, a good argument for universal healthcare.

[Dave]

I heard Alex Jones rant about obama-care and some how it got to "and its because they want to kill 80% of the population". I must have dazed off, or got pissed at a shitty driver and missed the logic behind that.

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

rate 0 fog 1 

That doesn't help the discussion, we're just passing around ideas not pwning each other and keeping score.

We could always be like Canada and get health care you have to wait 6 mos to see a damn doctor or specialist..

That's not always true, and is also sometimes the case in the US. Besides, at least they will get treated in the end as opposed to getting nothing or ending up in debt.

All I know is I pay out the ass for our Health Ins and since our work has gone to shit many guys where I work are having to drop it because they can't afford it, I pay a little over 8000 a yr for this shit.

My deductible is $2000/yr so I can't go to the doctor for minor stuff unless I want to pay out the ass for it. Luckily my employer pays for my coverage (something like $6000/yr), if I had to pay the premiums for that bullshit I wouldn't take it.

[[BDS]-Ole Man Rivers]

I hear ya E rider almost the same for me, Never had to wait very long to see my doc though being I have had the same doc for a while. One phone call and I would say no more than a week Im in to see him. But I hate the fact that in this time we have people with out coverage. It seems like if you have a address you can get free health care if your homeless you are fucked. I'm not to sure how it works but from what I understand, that seems to be the way.

as far as going in dept, that is why I pay for the shit. One year my youngest son broke both of his arms. The first time he broke one bone and bent one, so they had to brake the one that bent so it would grow back straight, so they had to put pins through his lower arm where they broke the bent one. When they sent the receipt of the bill, I was thankful for paying for that Ins B/S  so I guess there a some good and some bad.
 
 Just hate to see people who don't pay and probably never have paid taxes but got their ass's covered. Thanks to the tax payers like me and you.. Almost makes me feel like I'm getting ripped off.

[RadioMan]

Join the Military?  Great idea...Get great medical coverage...Free surgeries and free artificial limbs!  And don't forget the awesome care you'll get at Walter Reed hospital!   

I'll never understand the lack of compassion on this issue.  Some seem to see it as an American problem rather than a human one. 

Ever seen someone die because they don't have insurance?  I have....Fucking sad, is what it is - and inexcusable. 

We have medical insurance....We're lucky....but we still have some pretty big out of pocket expenses and are still paying off hospital bills from 2 years ago. No matter where we've worked, the premiums have gotten up,up,up and the amount of coverage has gone down, down, down..

While the Dems are certainly just as guilty for laying down at the time they need most need to stand up, it is an ugly site to watch wealthy men and women sit in our nation's captiol, trying to find ways to keep the medical playing field from being leveled for all.  The corruption is still running rampant in our government and will continue to do until private/ corporate lobbyists are banned from the process. 

After the legislation goes thru the bowels of congress, it will be recycled and spit out...likely into some stupid fucking tax credit.

It's things like this that prevent me from having faith in my government.

[RadioMan]

BTW....

This argument that "people who don't pay" are getting covered is a big fucking smoke screen.  Will people game the system?  Sure...with 300 million people in the USA, that's bound to happen.  That's a different issue called due diligence....something our government has always lagged on.

The OVERWHELMING majority of people who would be covered under universal health care would be tax payers. 

What's happening right now?  SOME people are gaming the low income med systems...and the insurance companies are gaming EVERYONE. 

Don't buy the hype...Will universal health care solve all the problems?  Fuck NO!   But it's a good start. 

[[BDS] The Rock]

Isn't the real problem the insurance companies and the way they do business?  And how they charge patients (AND doctors) for coverage or malpractice protection?  I've never tried to figure out how they play into the whole healthcare debate, because its so damn convoluted...