why the fuck do you join then?

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[[BDS] DEADMAN]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,537442,00.html

honestly, if combat violates your personal beliefs, then why would you do it?  The #1 reason we have the military is for protection foreign and domestic.  I knew a couple of assholes like this while I was still on active duty and it pisses me off that people who call themselves "conscientious objectors" join the fucking military. 

[[BDS]Disanto]

I know right? Its really stupid people who go and act like this.  But im glad the judge demoted him.  He deserved it.

[[BDS] spidermite]

I sympathise with thte dudes that join with the understanding they are going to be fighting a real war, only to find themselves policing ghettos in a third world country.

[[BDS] Θмεĝα]

I sympathise with thte dudes that join with the understanding they are going to be fighting a real war, only to find themselves policing ghettos in a third world country.

A "real war" is such a antiquated term in the present day since most of the nations that would have an army of sufficient size to make a true war out of it prefer diplomacy anyway (*cough*france*cough*). Since the Taliban, Bin Laden and the Iraqi terrorists are not recognized nations, they cant persue the course of diplomacy nor can they field troops enough to make a true war. So they are reduced to cowardly guerrilla terrorist attacks. If the same terrorists who are hiding among the civilians now actually came out to make a battle of it, they would be decimated by the superior firepower and technology (yay air support) of the US military and the brave men and women who serve the country.

[[BDS] Gurney (BEER)]

I agree Deadman, while I'm sure getting stop-lossed sucks.....if you are joining the military.....you should have no objections to fighting.....and even if you may object....your job is to STFU and do your job, period. 

[[BDS]-Ole Man Rivers]

Why the hell join the armed forces if your not going to do what is expected of you. Seems like the guy lost his balls or maybe after seeing Comrads come home with arms and legs missing just got in his head that it's not worth it. I never have been in the military so don't know all the ins and outs of their system. But I do feel not all people join the military to go shoot a gun and kill people when necessary. Either way the guy will be sent on his way after his jail term. Sometimes saying no is OK.

[[BDS] Oleander]

Yea get enlistment extended when you want to get out must suck but you should expect that when joining the army.

[Silent Death]

I think people join with the thought that they will just get to sit back and do nothing, yet when they get deployed, everything changes and all of a sudden they dont like what they are doing because they didnt expect to actually see Iraq or Afganistan.

If you join the military, you better be ready to go out there and do what the rest of our soldiers are doing.. No one gets special treatment. You cant just say "no i dont want to go to iraq, pick someone else". Thats not how it works..

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

He said he did not apply for conscientious objector status because that requires opposition to all wars, and he does not believe that all war is wrong.

He probably joined the military to defend America, not to fight in invasions of other countries. I can't blame him for that.

[[BDS]Disanto]

But defending the grand ole USA involves invasion in other countries so we dont have to bring the war here.  I mean it has happened only what 2-3 times that an enemy has stepped on this land and done major damage? (Pearl harbor, 9/11 and maybe others i cant think of).  As the saying goes, the greatest defense is a good offense!

[[BDS] The Rock]

He served 13 months in Iraq, so I dunno what all the piling is about.  He disobeyed an order and got disiplined.  Im sure this must be the first time that's ever happened in the military.  Its real easy to say "suck it up" from behind a desk. 

But defending the grand ole USA involves invasion in other countries so we dont have to bring the war here.  I mean it has happened only what 2-3 times that an enemy has stepped on this land and done major damage? (Pearl harbor, 9/11 and maybe others i cant think of).  As the saying goes, the greatest defense is a good offense!

Yeah that's the problem.  The irony is that we really are Team America: World Police now.  What happens when we exhaust the patience and raw manpower of people willing to enlist when we're occupying Iraq, Afghanistan, South America, Korea, Iran, Georgia and every other quasi-anti-American region?  What happens when you pull stop-losses on soldiers one too many times?  (Draft, thats what).  Our foreign policy actions are not sustainable.  Can you really go on "offense" against every single terrorist cell?   

The "War on Terror" is an ultimate exercise in futility.  For every extremist we kill, there is at least one that will take his place.  The only way to really "win" is if we just take over the whole world...    Everytime I hear stories about how we have troops here or there, I can' help but think about why the Roman Empire collapsed: overextension. 

He said he did not apply for conscientious objector status because that requires opposition to all wars, and he does not believe that all war is wrong.

He probably joined the military to defend America, not to fight in invasions of other countries. I can't blame him for that.

I find it utterly pathetic and disgusting how the notion of "defending America" has slowly been twisted into occupation of foreign outposts Ad Infinitum.  Who knows, maybe he joined so he could pay for school.  Not everyone joins to ship off and play hide and seek in the mountains with suicide bombers.   

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

But defending the grand ole USA involves invasion in other countries so we dont have to bring the war here.  I mean it has happened only what 2-3 times that an enemy has stepped on this land and done major damage? (Pearl harbor, 9/11 and maybe others i cant think of).  As the saying goes, the greatest defense is a good offense!

Afghanistan and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. If we were really striking back at those who perpetrated it we'd have attacked inside Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Besides, you can't fight terrorism with an army, it takes international police work and intelligence.

[[BDS] DEADMAN]

despite how people want to split that hair, its in the oath you take that you will do what is asked of you by the president and the officers appointed over you.  Obviously that entails deploying to parts of the world that A) need humanitarian aid B)need miltary aid C) all the above

You might not agree with it, but thats what you signed for. Almost eveyrbody understands that going into the military involves some kindof risk of going to war.  I you dont like those odds, dont join.  I didnt necessarily agree with George Bushes agenda, but  I volunteered to deploy to fallujah and provide assistance to my fellow marines and the people that lived in that city.  thats my opinion anyway. 

[[BDS] ElephantRider]

The oath doesn't mean blindly follow any order the President or brass give you. If your conscience doesn't allow you to perform the mission given then there are some outs you can take, and that guy took one of them. Of course there's a risk of going to war but most people assume it would be to defend the country against a direct attacker, not some country that may or may not possibly give out weapons they may or may not have to a group that may or may not exist. We can only pre-emptively strike other countries so many times before "just following orders" doesn't defend our soldiers anymore.

[[BDS] The Rock]

I agree that joining the military is an indentured servitude of sorts; how else would you maintain chain of command if everybody wasn't unquestionably subserviant?  I've got no problem with that...

I think people join with the thought that they will just get to sit back and do nothing, yet when they get deployed, everything changes and all of a sudden they dont like what they are doing because they didnt expect to actually see Iraq or Afganistan.

...Which is definitely not the case with this guy, since he already served a 13 month tour in Iraq: admitting that he didnt agree with the Invasion, but went anyway to support his fellow troops.  Kinda weak to suggest any hippocrisy on his part...

The oath doesn't mean blindly follow any order the President or brass give you.

Again, if you read the constitution reeeeeally carefully, the POTUS as ZERO military powers.  Only during wartime determined BY CONGRESS is he granted Commander-in-Chief powers.  This bullspit about CIC powers has long been abused and used to justify "peacekeeping" or "aid" missions.  re: Korea and Vietnam.